View Full Version : Judging in Irish Drifting-Load of co*k or not?
Danni made a good point ;)
Other thread was gettin a bit messy.... So what ye think??
Im happy with the Judging, my thoughts may change in future!! I know D-rift judging is a load of tosswank.............But that will all change next season :)
Tekno Twinky
05-11-09, 03:18
cockwank yes indeed
Im happy with the Judging, my thoughts may change in future!! I know D-rift judging is a load of tosswank.............But that will all change next season :)
TBH i think its better in d rift than pd!! at least in d rift the judges knw the crack and will give u a tiny bit of leeway if ur driven a cam etc etc! And im not just sayin that cause i was in it last time or anythin!
PD god how many times did i see french destroy james deane and they still gave it to deane!!
way2fastforu
05-11-09, 11:14
i jus cant stand the pd judges they jus go on an on an on tlkin shite...less tlk more drift!!!!!!!:D
TBH i think its better in d rift than pd!! at least in d rift the judges knw the crack and will give u a tiny bit of leeway if ur driven a cam etc etc! And im not just sayin that cause i was in it last time or anythin!
PD god how many times did i see french destroy james deane and they still gave it to deane!!
Its the Rules that are the problem there, not the judging (even though thats on and off too)
But at Mondello in august and Japfest that drag race from start line, ie: no pace cone, was very unfair... Its a horse power game now unfortunatly :(
Its a horse power game now unfortunatly :(
Na i dont think so (ask chucky:p:p) just joken!:)
But at Mondello in august and Japfest that drag race from start line, ie: no pace cone, was very unfair... Its a horse power game now unfortunatly :(
every big championship has done away with the pace cone. if PD want to keep the big boys they have to keep the big bos interested, no point in using it in ireland then going to the uk or the states and getting blown off the line because there is no cone
James Deane RX7
05-11-09, 12:52
PD god how many times did i see french destroy james deane and they still gave it to deane!!
Lad come on now, Iv been up against fFrenchy 3 times before and I love going up against him because I know its going to be a good battle, twice in 2007 and once in 2008, I first went against him in Rosegreen at round 2 in 2007 and we there was a re-run called and on the re-run Martin spun on the last bend so I went thru...The 2nd time I went against him was in Nuttz Corner round 3 in 2007 and he beat me fair and square...The last time I was against him was Round 2 of the European Series in 2008 at Tee-Side UK and there was contact between us when I was leading so I got the advantage...Im Sure Martin would back me up on this! Very interesting Threads lads:)
do we have any judges on here??
when watching drifting we "seem" to see more than the judges for some reason. maybe because we are down at a corner but they have the tower and see the full track, yet after every event there is always talk of a bad call.
james IMO(and others) you were well beat in punchestown early in the head to head(cant think of who you where up against) and the judges gave you the call. everyone around me questioned it and couldn't make sense of it. at the end of the day we all tought that the big name went trough.
as a driver do you ever feel you could have done better and wonder if you really were the better driver? i know if you go trough your not going to question it your just goingto think great and carry on, but surely you think "i was luckey on that one" at times??
do we have any judges on here??
when watching drifting we "seem" to see more than the judges for some reason. maybe because we are down at a corner but they have the tower and see the full track, yet after every event there is always talk of a bad call.
james IMO(and others) you were well beat in punchestown early in the head to head(cant think of who you where up against) and the judges gave you the call. everyone around me questioned it and couldn't make sense of it. at the end of the day we all tought that the big name went trough.
as a driver do you ever feel you could have done better and wonder if you really were the better driver? i know if you go trough your not going to question it your just goingto think great and carry on, but surely you think "i was luckey on that one" at times??
Their all here,And reading too.
Had a discussion about this last night with one.
Put forward some good points.
Long story short you'll never please everyone.
Their all here,And reading too.
Had a discussion about this last night with one.
Put forward some good points.
Long story short you'll never please everyone.
very true you will never please everyone.
maybe they should look at having the 3 judges in 3 different spots on the track so they actually see EVERYTHING
Administrator
05-11-09, 13:33
very true you will never please everyone.
maybe they should look at having the 3 judges in 3 different spots on the track so they actually see EVERYTHING
And have a judge for each particular thing they are judging on. I think this has to be the way forward?
Also, maybe a stupid question but are entry speeds actually measured with a gun or at all?
dont think they are over here darragh but i know BDC used one last year for some events, dont know how it effected judging because as we will be told drifting is not a race its all about the line
Administrator
05-11-09, 13:42
dont think they are over here darragh but i know BDC used one last year for some events, dont know how it effected judging because as we will be told drifting is not a race its all about the line
And entry speed and exit speed.
Jay Rockett
05-11-09, 13:43
Yeah a judge for each thing would be a good idea, that way they're looking at one particular thing each driver is doing and looking at one particular area of the battle, as opposed to trying to compare one driver to another overall, and all at the same time!
That way if they were unsure of a particular situation, they might just give it to one driver possibly because of previous achievements, whereas 3 judges deciding on one thing in particular would have a higher chance of making the right decession i think!
Administrator
05-11-09, 13:44
dont think they are over here darragh but i know BDC used one last year for some events, dont know how it effected judging because as we will be told drifting is not a race its all about the line
And entry speed and exit speed. The faster you are - the more balls you have, the more aggressive your style and the better it is to watch
Edit - In addition to Jay, I think that the only fair thing that can be done in Irish drifting is to use this approach, how many times have we heard "I thought blah blah etc." and then the next judge saying he thinks the first judge is wrong.
If we have judges who are competent in judging one aspect and actually have an area to judge assigned to their position there can be little or no guess work in decisions - which is what a lot of it seems to be nowadays. That way the judges decision will be fair and final - but only if they truly know how to judge each thing
Yeah a judge for each thing would be a good idea, that way they're looking at one particular thing each driver is doing and looking at one particular area of the battle, as opposed to trying to compare one driver to another overall, and all at the same time!
That way if they were unsure of a particular situation, they might just give it to one driver possibly because of previous achievements, whereas 3 judges deciding on one thing in particular would have a higher chance of making the right decession i think!
Ya i think that thats exactily whats needed, but also we would need proven judges,not fellas who just fell into the job by been good friends of the lads in prodrift.
Administrator
05-11-09, 13:50
Ya i think that thats exactily whats needed, but also we would need proven judges,not fellas who just fell into the job by been good friends of the lads in prodrift.
FACT! IMO
Although many will argue the current judges have been in the scene since it all began way back when but are they really the calibre of judges that the Irish drivers deserve?
are they really the calibre of judges that the Irish drivers deserve?
nope.
why when jonny p stopped drifting was he not brought in to be a judge, dan joyce seems to be at a fair few drifting events and is a shit hot drifter but doesn't compete, why not ask him to judge, Dmac was at how many events this year? he was given a mic and asked about the drifting but yet his opinion seemed to fall on deaf ears with the judges...:eek::eek:
Tekno Twinky
05-11-09, 14:07
Whatever about the judges beeing friends of friends its fact i know but also some of the friends have big sponsors such as NEXEN HANKOOK ETC ETC.. these guys need wins to keep sponsors.just putting that out there not gonna make accusations on here or anything like that because its not fair an nor may my thought be fact...
McCarthy WON PD in punchestown earlier in the year at the scortcher of a day, i dont care what anyone says im sure people on here will thonk the same if they think back
Lad come on now, Iv been up against fFrenchy 3 times before and I love going up against him because I know its going to be a good battle, twice in 2007 and once in 2008, I first went against him in Rosegreen at round 2 in 2007 and we there was a re-run called and on the re-run Martin spun on the last bend so I went thru...The 2nd time I went against him was in Nuttz Corner round 3 in 2007 and he beat me fair and square...The last time I was against him was Round 2 of the European Series in 2008 at Tee-Side UK and there was contact between us when I was leading so I got the advantage...Im Sure Martin would back me up on this! Very interesting Threads lads:)
Ya i suppose! I just see french as a very enteraining driver to watch cause he is so aggresive! So maybe it is hard to keep everyone happy!!:p
Not sayin anythin bout your skills your well abel to steer its just fun to watch french!
Na i dont think so (ask chucky:p:p) just joken!:)
Very true man, Horsepower means fuck all, i was running the biggest power last season(OPEN TO CORRECTION) and it didnt see me sail to the top!! Had a tough battle to finish 6th!!!
As fot the D-rift judging, its okay but i think could be done by better people!!
And as ive said, i think the PD judges are grand but some points could be right, as in different judges for different things, different judging points etc...........
Another thing i have noticed tho, is that its mostly fans and onlookers that have a problem with the Judging etc, PD competitors seem okay with it, but after all its the pubic they should be aiming to please as drifting over here is drawing smaller crowds each event!!
Another thing i have noticed tho, is that its mostly fans and onlookers that have a problem with the Judging etc, PD competitors seem okay with it, but after all its the pubic they should be aiming to please as drifting over here is drawing smaller crowds each event!!
its always the same, almost seems as if drivers are afraid to speak up, but then again they are in the car and involved not us watching
as i said chuck the judges are in the tower and really are the only ones that can see the battle from start to finish.
but at japfest i was standing at the back of honda and was with out doubt closer to the action than the judges were. nothing major happened at japfest but other days it can and the judges are miles away
i jus cant stand the pd judges they jus go on an on an on tlkin shite...less tlk more drift!!!!!!!:D
I agree 100%, i left 2 PD events early this year, no.1 because i didnt agree with the how they were judgin the drivers, it was so clear they have there favourits and no.2 because the amount of shit they were spoutin and holdin up drift time, cars lined up ready to go and dumb and dumber havin a little chin wag about the weather in america,
I think more transparent judging would be of benefit, I can see what in qualifying your score can't be given on completion of you laps, similar to the super lap.
nope.
why when jonny p stopped drifting was he not brought in to be a judge, dan joyce seems to be at a fair few drifting events and is a shit hot drifter but doesn't compete, why not ask him to judge, Dmac was at how many events this year? he was given a mic and asked about the drifting but yet his opinion seemed to fall on deaf ears with the judges...:eek::eek:
Johney wouldnt do judging,he barely gives a line when he is asked to talk lol ,. he just loves drifting thats why hes there.
Dmac would be a good judge.
Dunno Dan Joyce so I cant say anything
Did kieran hynes av drift cars back in his time ???
Supose it doesnt matter if u drifted b4 u could still be able to judge maybe but think a driver would understand whats going on inside the car aswell if that makes any sense, im not a writter lol.
Did Jay say he was talking to a judge.... on here or do you know him. Are they looking at this??
Another thing why is it James Deane is the only drifter on this site with the balls to give his view ?? Everyone including the rest of drifters have seen this or my thread and still no comments.
its always the same, almost seems as if drivers are afraid to speak up, but then again they are in the car and involved not us watching
as i said chuck the judges are in the tower and really are the only ones that can see the battle from start to finish.
but at japfest i was standing at the back of honda and was with out doubt closer to the action than the judges were. nothing major happened at japfest but other days it can and the judges are miles away
Drivers cant give out, it in the PD rules.. Judges say is final
Another thing why is it James Deane is the only drifter on this site with the balls to give his view ?? Everyone including the rest of drifters have seen this or my thread and still no comments.
Now isnt that favoritism? Am i not a PD Competitor? Does one have to be Pro to exist?
Now isnt that favoritism? Am i not a PD Competitor? Does one have to be Pro to exist?
Sure cant talk bout you, ur already in every thread!!
Sorry u have too much balls.
And not taking piss ere ok.
Drivers cant give out, it in the PD rules.. Judges say is final
judges ruling is final alright but why not complain about it. yeah it might seem like your being a sore loser and moaning because you lost.
all last season the BDC had one on one time with the judges after practice/before qualifying so you got a clear idea where you are going wrong. rather than just be told the line they want to see.
why cant this be done over here
[QUOTE=s13-ste;39196]judges ruling is final alright but why not complain about it. yeah it might seem like your being a sore loser and moaning because you lost.
Ya you would know yourself you are right to complain but everyone would def think your a sore loser and then its a judged sport. no judge is gonna like you if you put them on the spot in front of everyone,.
Your next score would prob be zero lol
in football the ref has the final say on the day but if teams feel hard done by the can complain.
sometimes things need to be adressed and once one does it it might get the ball rolling and others will voice their opinion too
Jay Rockett
05-11-09, 18:05
in football the ref has the final say on the day but if teams feel hard done by the can complain.
sometimes things need to be adressed and once one does it it might get the ball rolling and others will voice their opinion too
Was just thinking something similar myself.. If your in the car its too hard to see exactly how well your doing and even harder to see how your competitor is doing.. But as "teams" are begining to form nowadays, i think THEY (team members) should be watching closely if they can and if they kick up a fuss AND if the crowd seems to agree, then the judges should be thinking twice!
And as people have said before, its the crowds that the event holders are trying to increase and if they want the numbers, they need to please the crowd! The new clipping points is one way of doing that alrite, but if any judging is biased, its gona stop people attending, just as much as the shite they talk between runs! (thats probably me fecked in judging next year but the waffling and standing around waiting between runs is seriosly frustrating!)
[QUOTE=sr20ronan;39178]Johney wouldnt do judging,he barely gives a line when he is asked to talk lol ,. he just loves drifting thats why hes there.QUOTE]
Johnny P judged d-rift once or twice a few years back didnt he? And was very fair IMO...
There seems to be a folloow the leader kinda thing goin on with the judges dont ye think??
Jp mc carthy was robbed in punchestown this year...as were a few others..
Very true man, Horsepower means fuck all, i was running the biggest power last season(OPEN TO CORRECTION) and it didnt see me sail to the top!! Had a tough battle to finish 6th!!!
If your a pro driver and you have a big horse power advantage, no pace cone and at least a 500 meter run into the first bend then you have a massive advantage.
Its all well and good saying there's no pace cone where ever else but in FD for example where everyone is pushing big power its not an issue.There's a select few in PD with big power and the lack of a pace cone and changes in judging criteria now mean there is little or no room for lower powered cars at the top.
I was at mondello and saw it first hand, I thought it was shite as did a lot of the drivers I spoke to.Who wants to see a car come into the first bend with a 40ft gap to the chase car, its unfair for the skilled drivers in a slower car and it looks shite for the spectators.
I wasn't at any other events last year so I can't comment on the judging but I've been saying for a long time that having 3 judges in the in the same tower is stupid.They have radio contact now anyway so why not put them at differen locations around the track, let them communicate with each other and better decide who won.
At the end of the day judgein is done by a human and humans make mistakes!! Ya sure there's calls that go against ya and theres calls that go with ya!!!
I for one would not like to be pearched on top of the judgein tower tryin to decide whats what in the most competitive championship, with the best drivers in Europe!
I was at mondello and saw it first hand, I thought it was shite as did a lot of the drivers I spoke to.Who wants to see a car come into the first bend with a 40ft gap to the chase car, its unfair for the skilled drivers in a slower car and it looks shite for the spectators.
Id have to agree with ya there eric! It suited me granted, but its shite to be miles ahead on the first bend!! Ireland was always about a level playing field no matter the power and personally i think it should stay that way!
i think that at mondello this year the judges were trying to be comedians entertaning the crowd and not focusing enough on the actual drifting,i was was standing under the tower watching a few runs and i thought it was scandellous that the two boys were still talking to each other when some drivers were on turn two and not even looking at it!!
the fact is that most guys struggle to get cars ready for events and pay to compete in them so the least they should get is a bit of respect from the judges and a bit more professionalism.ffs give them a fair crack of the whip at least.the judging panel imo should be a stronger panel and a bit more professional in their approach and let the comentator entertain the crowd.
then we would have less chance of judges getting it wrong, happier drivers and spectators.:)
i think that at mondello this year the judges were trying to be comedians entertaning the crowd and not focusing enough on the actual drifting,i was was standing under the tower watching a few runs and i thought it was scandellous that the two boys were still talking to each other when some drivers were on turn two and not even looking at it!!
it wasn't the judges talking it was ian bergan and darren. i actually think darren was locked at japfest
it was ian bergin and pedan talking,,i was looking at them and they were the judges at pd mondello!!
oh im thinking of the PDSS that was ran at japfest
I think that the commentators should be away from the judges,let the judges be together and judging a particular part of the drift,let them get 1 message of why a driver has gone trough,or not gone trough to the commentators.
The commentators are talking to the jugdes when guys are twin battleng right in front of them,let them consentrate on there individual job,the 1 thing that the spectators get annoyed with is the shite talk between judges and commentators,and it holds up the action,also you DO NEED the commentators to get the crowd goingbut not ull blown conversation going on with judges when you wana watch the action.
Also GREAT thread lads.:D
the commentators give me a serious headache id much prefer maurice back there he was the heart and soul of the place, why must the current commentators think there in the U.S when there talking,
Martin ffrench
05-11-09, 21:11
Lad come on now, Iv been up against fFrenchy 3 times before and I love going up against him because I know its going to be a good battle, twice in 2007 and once in 2008, I first went against him in Rosegreen at round 2 in 2007 and we there was a re-run called and on the re-run Martin spun on the last bend so I went thru...The 2nd time I went against him was in Nuttz Corner round 3 in 2007 and he beat me fair and square...The last time I was against him was Round 2 of the European Series in 2008 at Tee-Side UK and there was contact between us when I was leading so I got the advantage...Im Sure Martin would back me up on this! Very interesting Threads lads:)
Hats off to you james always a pleasure to drift with. Ya in rosegreen i went through two sets of tyres and then another set and spun handing the win to you and the event if i remember and well deserved first of many.
Nutz i was on a mission and had tyres lol. gud buzz.
Teeside you were a little slow so i gave you a little nudge to say drive on ;) and then on the hairpin you braked so i gave you a nudge again and you straightened (on purpose maybe because there was clear contact thus handing you the advantage) if i remember i apolagised to you after and i think your words were (why did you do tht you would have beaten me) we will never know.
As for judging i can honestly hand on heart say ive never felt wronged except for mondello with the drag race to the first corner. But the other side of that is if i had the altezza or rx7 there i would have had no problem because i would have been faster than most.
I dont agree with a drag race because it makes it impossible for people with less power or budget to win unless they have a lot of luck.
If people think they have been wronged by the judging of an event then dont be afraid to speak up at an event or to a judge. A word of advice listen very carefully to what the judges want and if you do this exactly you will qualify very high. You would be supprised how many people when told to run an outside line simply dont.
Just my two pence worth.
Oh and i drive 150% all the time so i hope you all enjoy watching thats what its about. If i can bring a gasp or grin to peoples faces then im happy.
video from teeside good viewing. 2:50 go to it for quick view
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ-5CNp0Q0s
the commentators give me a serious headache id much prefer maurice back there he was the heart and soul of the place, why must the current commentators think there in the U.S when there talking,
Alot of lads didnt like him,but i thought he was BRILLIANT.He really got the crowd going and also got up close and talked to the guys on track,like there thoughts on the runs and so on.I'd say you would hear the drivers talking back to a judges decision,or even simply questioning it if the commentators were down there with them.
I know the PD judges fairly well at this stage and I don't think there's many people out there as qualified or as willing to sit and judge a competition as close as a PD top 16 is.It really is not easy and finding judges in the first place is a mission in itself.
I do agree that they are not the most qualified people to talk to the crowd though and they come across as being quite indecisive and repetitive at the events.They should be left to judge and relay info to the commentator if needs be, maybe another commentator with more drifting experience would work well too that could give the crowd more info about drivers, the cars and the battle itself.
And your right Nigel, Ireland was always about a level playing field and it should be kept that way since there are very few lads who can realistically afford big power.Not that those who have power should be penalised but at least lets have two cars enter the course together and put on a good show.
I think trying to make the Irish series more like FD in the states is a bad move and it just won't work here.Full speed twin drifting is where the Irish have always shone and why the PD events have always been a huge success.
Jay Rockett
05-11-09, 23:37
Really glad to see the views from the guys who've been envolved in the game for the last number of years!
It would be great to keep it at a level playing field but its a motosport at the end of the day and competitiveness will always try to win and that's going to lead to bigger power, more expensive tires and better suspension etc to try out-do the component! dont really know of a solution but the pace cone DOES seem to be one way of keeping the 2 cars entering the corner together as eric said and yeah defo, the crowd wants to see a good battle around the corners, not a drag-race!
just read this thread now, not too clued up on previous events where judges have come under a bit of query as i dont realy keep too close an eye on pd, (sorry) but ill agree they do spend too much time waffling on and having us poor folk under the loud speakers to bear with it when frankly wed much prefer to watch and listen to the action with a brief roundup after the runs!
I do remember at punchestown in the summer though there was a few times when myself and many around were quite shocked at some of the results, i remember us all booing when dan moorehead got knocked out after anihalating whoever he was up against, at that stage i realy thought the yip yap for the crowd should be cut out and more attention should be paid to people like him who put in the effort to do well..
but anyways, keep it going, interesting read
Great to get the view of the top men... :)
Great point you made eric about why the hell are the judges huddled together in the one tower, wtf hey :rolleyes:
As for the whole pace cone thing and stuff if thier tryin to formula d Irish drifting then they are gonna alienate the "club man" of irish drifting so to speak....Cos its getting too obsessed with being big and powerful..
Edit...Mr french, get one of these Tezzas finished will ya and kick some arse :D
jus got a quick read of this now, its a seriously hard to find a decent solution to the fact that the bigger powered cars are always goin to leave big gaps to the lesser powered cars.. but the pace cone is a simple way of keepin them together and as everyone has said it a spectator sport!! if the crowd isnt happy then its game over! i really think that the pro lads who are pushing themselves in less powered cars are feckin heroes!! for example donal(bonzai twin cam!) anyone who saw him in cork or mondello will agree that he was one of the most entertainin lads to watch!! every run he got he gave his car absolute pain and death!! it was brilliant!!! and he faired well against the bigger powers!!
who nos really!! its all a mystery but i for one enjoy seein the less powered cars barge their way over the crest! makes for entertainment and also scores well with the folks in the tower!
rant over. but good thread lads and keep the input coming it can only help!
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